Surviving on Bees and Berries

A 40-year-old Ohio man was lost for six days and nights in the Pacific Northwest. Rescuers found him in reasonably good shape. His family says that he was always interested in nutrition so they weren’t surprised that he survived by eating bees and berries.  (And you thought that bees were only good for making honey and pollinating flowers!)

Here’s the full story from UK’s Evening Standard.

h/t Andony

Posted in Humour, Strange, Odd Stuff | Tagged | 1 Comment

Smoky Bees

Unfortunately, this post from three years ago is all too timely today, in August 2018. After record-breaking heat throughout the west, forests burst into flame, and smoke has filled the air. Our thoughts are especially with the folks in California and BC who are in the midst of one of their worst fire seasons ever.

For beekeepers, what follows is a bit about fires, smoke, and bees. When I wrote this three years ago, I had no bees in the backyard. Now I do. The effect of this year’s heavy smoke is noticeable – the flight from the hives is just one-third to one-half of what it was a few days ago when there was no smoke.

Bad Beekeeping Blog

Calgary - a smoker's haven.Calgary – a smoker’s haven.

My home town – Calgary – is under a smoke advisory. The sky is hazy with smelly gray smoke from the trees, grass, and homes that are on fire down in Washington state.

Those fires are about 700 kilometres (500 miles) away and on the other side of the Rockies, but you can see from the picture that the smoke has drifted to us. Considering the large number of fires in the drought-stricken Pacific Northwest and coastal areas, we have been lucky that the smoke has avoided us until today.

Smoke WarningI was wondering what effect such smoke has on honey bees. Here at home, I see no bugs of any sort out this morning. A few days ago, they were really active, but they seem to have gone into hiding. I am not at the moment near any apiaries, so I can’t comment directly…

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Posted in Beekeeping, Ecology, Honey, Reblogs, Uncategorized | Tagged , , , , , | 2 Comments

More on High Temperatures and Bees

At 25 cents each, it might pay to put one of these 1908-dairy thermometers in each hive.
I wonder if they are Wi-Fi compatible?

A couple of days ago, I posted about our all-time record high temperature. It was 37 ºC (98.6 ºF) – a temp that’s not too extravagant for many beekeepers, but the city of Calgary had never seen such a hot day. It wasn’t just a record for the date; it was a record for any date since the city’s records began, about 120 years ago. (Calgary is a young town.)

Since 37 ºC was our hottest ever, that tells you that it is normally much cooler here, even in the summer. Usually, it’s pleasantly mild. Sometimes, our summers are really cold. For example, on August 3rd, 2002, Calgary had 5 cm (2 inches) of snow. In mid-August 1993, we had a good, old-fashioned foot of snow and kids went tobogganing and snow-shoeing in Calgary. Today, just three days after nearly hitting 100 ºF, we had 44 ºF in the morning, though we are headed for a high of 68º (20 ºC) this afternoon.

But enough about cold Calgary. Today I wanted to write about heat and bees. My hot blog post on Friday received about twenty comments with advice on how to help bees survive a heatwave. If you haven’t had a chance to read that entry, I think that you’ll find the comments from readers better than the original post which I’d written!  I wrote about spraying cold water on hot hives. No one reader came to the unequivocal defense of my ‘hose the bees down with ice water until they chill’ idea, though two people mentioned that they had had wax combs melt inside their hives, breaking and falling.

Heat can bad. Wax melts at around 145º to 147º Fahrenheit (63º to 64º Celsius). Although ambient temperature has never been that hot on Earth (not yet, anyway), it’s possible for heat to become wax-puddling hot inside a box. A friend (Earl Emde) once lost the top boxes on an open-carry truck load of honey supers which he’d pulled on a hot day in the southern California deserts. The temperature doesn’t have to reach the wax-melt point to damage comb, of course. Heat softens combs long before that. The weight of bees and honey can make soft wax stretch and plop to the bottom of the hive, especially with top bar hives (as Erik mentioned on Friday) or with foundationless comb (as Susan wrote).

On Twitter, someone told me that bees know how to manage things on their own and don’t need our garden hose trick. That’s certainly true of wild bees living in trees where thick insulating bark, light breezes, and deep tree cavities mitigate the heat. But most of us no longer climb trees to harvest honey. Our beekeeping is quite unnatural in many ways, including the use of boxes of various shapes and styles. So, we have a responsibility to our bees to take care of them and reduce some of the effects of our unnatural beekeeping.

Here’s a very brief summary of suggestions made by beekeepers. They all offered advice on how to keep bees cooler when it’s hot.

Screens.  Susan: “The heat is now so intense in summer that I have not only SBBs but fully ventilated screened tops under the top boards.”  ALSO, from JFBeekeeper: “Others use a shin with screened vent holes. Some have bottom boards that you can change between solid and screened bottoms depending upon the season.”

Moving.  avwalters: “We moved the hives from an open meadow to an area of filtered sunshine up in the pines.”

Shade. Ray: “I find shade to be the most beneficial so for your hot days and two hives I would erect a nice big sun parasol”

Ventilation. Sassafrasbeefarm: “…others use upper shims with screened port holes which act as a ventilated attic. For those on a budget, a penny or popsicle stick between the inner and outer cover works to vent some of the heat.”  ALSO, from Deb Corcoran: “We crack the outer covers up in the back so it reston the inner cover. “

Good air circulation. Steve Williams: “I make sure that my hives are in a place that allows plenty of air circulation around the hive.”

Reflective colour.  Deb Weyrich-Cody: “the first thing I’d be doing is paint those hives white.”

These are great suggestions. Our two backyard hives aren’t paying attention to most of this advice, so I’ll have a talk with them – as soon as it gets hot again.  Meanwhile, I had a comment on Facebook that hosing bees is dangerous because wet bees will die. They certainly might. My son was watering the hive backs and sides, not the entrances. But I think we might be a little over-concerned about water. Water removes a lot of heat in a hurry. Those of us who have trucked loads of packages in vans have sprayed water everywhere inside the van. Some of it accidentally gets through the package screens. It’s an absolute lifesaver for bees which are overheating. Same with semi-loads of bees – a lot of migratory beekeepers carry hoses to cool their bees off. This is especially important if an emergency stop at a garage is needed and the hives would otherwise bake in the sun.

Our concern about wet bees is valid, but bees are more resilient than you might think. Here’s an experiment that I don’t recommend: Put ten bees into a sealed jar of water. Swish it around and wait a few minutes. The bees will look dead. Maybe they are. Drain the water and drop the clump of wet bees on some paper towels. In a few minutes, they will (probably) twitch, wiggle, crawl, fly up, and sting you in your face for your meanness.

Finally, I want to include a nice email which I got from Dieter. He wanted to send his half-penny’s worth of suggestions, based on Langstroth’s 150-year-old Hive and Honey Bee book.

Langstroth says:
“It should afford suitable protection against extremes of heat and cold, sudden changes of temperature, and the injurious effects of dampness. The interior of a hive should be dry in winter, and free in summer from a pent and almost suffocating heat.

Dieter notes:  “Suffocating heat wasn’t new to Langstroth. He addresses this, however, by hive design and not with the water hose.”   [RMM: I’m sure that Reverend Langstroth would have suggested a water hose if they had been in common use in the 1860s!]

Langstroth also says,
“I am well aware of the question which many of my readers have for some time been ready to ask me. Can you make one of your well-protected hives as cheaply as we construct our common hives? I would remind such questioners that it is hardly possible to build a well protected house as cheaply as a barn. . . . If they are not built of doubled materials they can be made for as little money as any other patent hive, and yet afford much greater protection, as the combs touch neither the top, bottom, nor sides of the hive.

I recommend, however, a construction which, although somewhat more costly at first, is yet much cheaper in the end. Such is the passion of the American people for cheapness in the first cost of an article, even at the evident expense of dearness in the end, that many, I doubt not, will continue to lodge their bees in thin hives in spite of their conviction of the folly of doing, . . . .”

Dieter added, “I have insulated my hives for 3 or 4 years now, long before I found this [Langstroth] reference. When I shared this with other beekeepers in the club they all said it is going to be too hot in the hives in the summer.  I tried in vain to explain that the insulation does not only keep the bees warmer in the winter but also keeps the heat out in the summer.”

Here’s the photo which Dieter sent of his own nicely insulated hive:

Posted in Beekeeping, Books, Climate, Commercial Beekeeping | Tagged , | 8 Comments

Our Hottest Day

My home town, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, just set a record for heat. In all the past decades of weather-watching here, we’ve never been as hot as it was today. Ever. (In recorded history.) Officially, it reached 37C, which is over 98F.  I know that a lot of my readers are doing a big yawn – you’ve probably see that over and over again during your summers. But at our latitude and our elevation, this was a hot day.

So, for those of you much more experienced at being in heat than I am, help me out a bit. Our two hives were in the sun this afternoon when the local thermometers boiled over. Daniel went out with a garden hose to soak the lids and sides (but not the entrances) of our hives. Good idea or bad? What do you do in hot climates on hot days?

Posted in Beekeeping, Climate | Tagged , | 32 Comments

Bee Art Exhibit

Beginning Saturday, August 11, four Vancouver Island artists will exhibit Bee Art at the Leighton Art Centre just south of Calgary. I don’t know if I’ll make it out there for the opening reception (Saturday, 2-4pm) but the exhibit continues into late September.

If you live in the Calgary area and want a pleasant ride into the countryside, this could be it. The bees are a bonus. Cost is by donation. Details are on the Leighton Centre website and a screenshot is below.

Posted in Culture, or lack thereof, Outreach | Tagged , , | Leave a comment

Bears and Bees: Not the story you’re expecting

I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. A few weeks ago, a family of pandas moved to our city. They are staying at the zoo. If you live anywhere within a thousand kilometres, drop by and meet the bears. If they are awake, they’ll enjoy seeing you. I know because I took some of my family to the Calgary Zoo last week and the pandas could bearly conceal their enthusiasm when they spotted me. I’m sure you’ll get a similar reception.

It a great zoo. The lemurs have a huge walk-in enclosure (don’t let them have your wallet) and we’ve got zebras, a T-rex, wolves, hippies, hippos, Amur tigers, grizzlies, cackleberries, peccaries, and people selling ice cream (don’t let them have your wallet).

Something new at the zoo is a native bees garden. It’s a great reminder that our bees need your help. People come for the pandas, leave with bee facts. (The bees are near the panda exhibit.) A sign tells visitors that Calgary is a Bee City and the “Calgary Zoo has been certified as Alberta’s first Bee City Business and proudly protects habitats for native pollinators like bees, butterflies, birds and beetles.”

This is followed by an explanation of the importance of pollinators in producing our food:

The most popular display among the bees, though, is the bees’ Beatles collection. (“Why is it called the bees’ Beatles collection?” asks almost no one. Second question, “Why do those kids look so much like me?”)

‘Tis I with some kids I met at the zoo!

Posted in Culture, or lack thereof, Outreach, Pollination, Save the Bees | Tagged , , , | 2 Comments

A Bee ID Expert

How well do you know bees? Not just honey bees, but all the other ones – masons, carpenters, diggers, sweat, cutters, bumblers, and the other many thousands of species. If you are like most of us, not so well. There’s a system to identifying the various species. That’s the good news. The bad news is that it might take years to get really good at doing a bee ID.

Oregon State University’s Pollination Podcast interviewed a real bee-ID expert. That’s Sam Droege. I’ve him mentioned before in this blog because of Sam Droege’s amazing bee photography. If you haven’t seen his work, check out his USDA Flickr page, where you can enjoy spectacular photos such as this one of a Chilean bumblebee:

Last week, my friend Andony Melathopoulos interviewed Mr Droege for the Pollination Podcast. They didn’t discuss Sam’s photography but instead focused on the way various species of bees can be identified.

Bee identification is more important than many honey bee fans realize. Beekeepers are having a miserable time keeping honey bee colonies alive (pesticides, urbanization, monoculture, pests, diseases, climate change). Nevertheless, beekeepers have been medicating, feeding, helping, and replacing colonies so that the numbers of hives have actually increased. Honey bees are being maintained, but few people are helping the other 20,000 species of bees. Some of their numbers are dwindling. If we understand which bee species are disappearing (and why), we might find ways to help them. In turn, that can help honey bees survive better.  Bee counts give us information on how well (or poorly) all the bees are doing.

A lot of communities are enlisting citizen scientists to identify and count bees, butterflies, and other pollinating insects. Andony Melathopoulos’s podcast interview of Sam Droege gives us some good ideas about how such surveys and  species recognition can be conducted.

Sam Droege says that some work can be done by volunteers in the field using butterfly binoculars and nets, but he does not recommend it. Observer bias is the problem. Observers don’t see everything. They are distracted. They don’t all work the same – some observers may catch and release a dozen bugs in their block while another observer manages to catch only two. This might be due to insect density – or it might be due to the volunteer’s abilities. Humans simply can not consistently spot everything the same way, time after time.

That’s why traps are used. Traps remove human bias and get a more accurate count of the relative populations of insects in an environment. Although traps kill insects, the number of trapped individuals is extremely tiny (perhaps a few hundred out of a few million) for any particular area. Trapping is harsh, but it provides the best way of knowing how to help the unsampled millions.

So, insects are trapped. Then they are sorted and identified. Sam Droege suggests that the ID process should begin with the volunteer sorting out the most easily distinguished bugs first and leaving the troubling ones for later. Do this instead of picking up each and every specimen one after another and trying to figure out each before moving on to the next.

You might instantly recognize honey bees, bumblebees, leafcutters, flies, particular moths or butterflies, and so on. Count them and separate them first. Save the ones you can not quickly get for further examination later. When you come back to the difficult creatures, don’t spend more than five minutes on each. Droege points out that your time will exponentially increase the longer you take so give it a rest at five minutes. In time, with experience and outside help, you’ll get better at the task.

The podcast wasn’t limited to bee identification. Discussion included pollinator protection and gardening ideas that can help keep pollinators in your yard, the environment healthy, and your ecology balanced. For that conversation, and so much more, go to the podcast. As always, the Pollination Podcast is a good listen.

Would you have recognized the Diphaglossa gayi? (Photo by Sam Droege, USGS)

Posted in Bee Biology, Outreach, Save the Bees, Science | Tagged , , , | 3 Comments

Expecting the unexpected

For the past two days, I described how we might predict a future honey flow. I mentioned how difficult soothsaying can be yet I went on to say that experience and a tool like a scale hive can help us plan for the season.  We have to prepare for the extremes, not just the average.

If your bees could make a hundred pounds in an exceptional season, but you own just two shallow supers because the average crop is fifty pounds, you will never make the big crop. (If you have a long strong flow, you might extract two or three times, but extra supers are still a good idea.)

These bees probably need more supers.

On the other hand, you might not make any honey some years, even though the long-term average is good. Drought, frost, rain, plant pests, floods, or hail can cancel your plans. More things can go wrong than go right – crop failures are pretty common in beekeeping. So, keep your bank account and credit record topped up. And buy sugar when it’s on sale even if you are sure you’ll never need to do any emergency feeding.

Here’s something unexpected that happened to me late yesterday afternoon. It had been a warm beautiful morning and sunshine was in the day’s forecast. I was driving a few kilometres inside the city of Calgary.  To the north it was sunny and hot and stayed that way all day. Further south, near my home, I drove through a ferocious rainstorm followed by ‘golf-ball-sized’ hail. It littered the ground with ice.

Storms usually track from west to east on our continent. Beekeepers figured this out years ago. As a cheap insurance policy, most commercial beekeepers stretch their yards from north to south, not from west to east. Then, if a hail storm destroys an alfalfa field along one narrow strip, a short drive north, the fields are likely spared.  Similarly, one west-east band may be hit by drought while just a short distance south there might have been a refreshing mid-summer rain reviving a dwindling nectar flow. Placing yards north to south mitigates the risk.

As it turned out, yesterday’s hail storm reminded me yet again of the vulnerability of beekeeping and its inherent unpredictability. The storm erupted and ended as suddenly as a light switch turns light to dark to light again. Flowers were flattened, but the hail was accompanied by heavy rain – usually welcomed in my area in the summer.

Meanwhile, I wondered about the bees in my hives. Bees, as you know, are sensitive to vibrations. It’s part of their communication system. Migratory beekeepers know that the regular vibration of the road and truck engine calms their bees during long trips. So, what do bees do when fifteen minutes of hail stones pound their hives’ lids during a storm? I can imagine a lot of confusion. But the bees inside the hives are the lucky bees. Bees caught outside when a sudden hail storm strikes are not nearly so lucky. Here’s what my backyard hives looked like in the late afternoon. Later, I’ll peak inside and ask if everyone is OK.

Posted in Bee Yards, Beekeeping, Climate, Commercial Beekeeping | Tagged , | 14 Comments

How to predict the honey flow

Our friend Jacques, inspecting our hives a few years ago.

This post will be disappointing to anyone hoping for a quick and easy way to predict what the honey flow will bring. There is no substitute for experience. It may take years to gain the knowledge you’ll need because every season is different. You will eventually learn to read the tea leaves – but even then, the tea will often be murky.

Nevertheless, we have to be able to make plans. What’s an ‘average’ honey crop? How many supers do we need? When do we remove the last boxes before fall/winter? Although there can be wild fluctuations around the average, we gain some sense for what to expect. You don’t need to rely only on your own experiences- beekeepers are notoriously helpful and willing to share what they know. I’ve had commercial honey farms in six different areas over the years (Appalachian Pennsylvania, Florida, Wisconsin, grasslands southern Saskatchewan, parkland central Saskatchewan, mountain foothills in Alberta) and I am very grateful for the advice which smarter and older beekeepers have given me. I would have never lived long enough to learn beekeeping in six vastly disparate geographies. I needed the help of locals.

However, for predicting the future, I’ve found a useful and unexpected tool. A hive scale. An average hive, sitting on an old fashioned platform scale, can tell you a lot. If you keep records of the daily change in weight, you will have real-time data to guide you. If you keep those records for a few years, you can spot trends which will help you predict your crops.

The scale hive can give you some interesting and useful information. What’s the most honey your colony might make in one day? In our area, it’s 35 pounds. That’s if you have enough boxes piled on the hive. When is the peak flow? For us, on average, it’s late July. What’s the longest dearth period in the summer? In Alberta, a mid-summer dearth is rare but we’ve had up to ten days of cold windy rainy weather when (according to the scale hive) the bees lost a pound a day. What’s the earliest date the bees had a substantial flow (gaining over ten pounds a day)? Here, it was June 22nd. What’s the most honey your hive might store in a year (my scale hive gained 441 pounds one year) and the least (13 pounds – a year with a severe drought). Those last two numbers help you know how many supers you’ll need and how much money to put away for a bad year.  Individual results may vary. That’s why you should consider setting up your own scale hive.

Last week, I wrote a short piece for the United Beekeepers of Alberta Council. (If you are an Alberta beekeeper – commercial, sideline, hobby – you may participate in this new organization!)  I am repeating my original article below. It will be most useful to beekeepers on the North American plains and prairies, but it illustrates how scale hive results can be useful for long-term planning and crop predictions.  Here’s the story from the UBAC Newsletter:

What to expect in August in Alberta, Canada

By late-July, you’ve harvested some honey. But you’re hoping for more. The first cut of hay has been baled, canola is fading, but you still expect more honey. It’s not yet August, so you’re probably right. How optimistic can you be?

Over the years, I’ve kept a few hives on scales, weighing colonies each evening for nine years. That was in the southern prairies. Meanwhile, a close friend kept a scale hive going in the parklands, at the northern edge of farming, for seventeen years. These are quite different areas, but there are some similarities in production. During June and September, the scale hives usually gained a little weight – on average, about 20 pounds in June; 10 in September. July was almost always the best month, but occasionally, in both locations, August produced the biggest part of the crop. Here’s a chart with the actual numbers, averaged over the years:

From these data, you might expect between two-thirds and three-quarters of your crop to arrive in July. Between the two locations, north and south, I have 26 years of records. Only three times was a bigger part of the crop gathered during August. You might extract most of your honey in August, but a lot of that was produced during July. Using a scale hive, you can actually tell when the bees gathered it – mostly, in July.

How you use this information depends on your management goals. If you don’t like to feed bees for winter, then you must start to reduce the number of honey boxes significantly in early August, forcing more honey into the brood nest and leaving more stores for winter. If you are concerned about wintering your hives on canola and/or fall honey and want to maximize your crop, then keep the supers piled on.

Of course, there’s only one place to put honey supers if you want the bees to fill them – and that’s not in a corner of the shed. If the flow ends on August 10th, as sometimes happens, it doesn’t take much energy to haul empties back to the shop. If the flow continues strongly, the extra space helps keep the brood nest open for the queen to lay late-summer eggs. That brood will become the bees you’ll see next April. Many Alberta beekeepers remember September 2007 when second-bloom alfalfa, good moisture, and hot weather gave an enormous late flow. We raced around in mid-September, sticking three completely empty drawn frames into the middle of each brood nest to give the queen room. Folks who wintered with plugged brood nests lost their bees.

Besides preventing a jammed brood nest during August, extra supers inspire the bees to collect more nectar. If honey supers are more than 80% full, bees slow down gathering, even if nectar is abundant. If you stack a bunch of empties on the hive, the bees keep working hard if the weather and flowers cooperate.

Dr Don Peer,
Nipawin beekeeper

(Photo: David Miksa)

One of the legendary beekeepers of western Canada, Don Peer, a Nipawin beekeeper with an entomology PhD, once told us at a bee meeting, “If I were king of the world, I’d make a law that every beekeeper had to own one more super for each hive of bees.”  Bees need comb space to hold wet nectar. Dr Peer was astonishingly successful. At first, he ran two-queen colonies from packages. According to Dr Eva Crane (from her book Making a Beeline), Don Peer’s hives made up to 40 pounds a day. I saw his outfit and stood on the back of a truck to reach the top supers. Such tall hives made him switch back to single-queen hives, but even then he stacked supers as high as he could reach. “Bees need space,” he said.

As August approaches, keep in mind that the bees might yet store a hundred pounds. If you are trying to maximize your honey crop, the hives still need three, four, or five medium supers. But watch the weather. When the flow ends, remove those boxes as quickly as you can and start your fall chores.

Posted in Beekeeping, Climate, Commercial Beekeeping, History, People | Tagged , , , , , , , | 2 Comments

What will August bring?

A few minutes outside Calgary – canola is fading but sweet clover is still going strong with second-bloom alfalfa just starting. August might be good for the bees.

I had an email last week with a question about beekeeping. I couldn’t answer it. The reader asked, “What can I expect my bees to do in August?” It depends, of course, on where you are keeping bees. In the southern hemisphere, it’s mid-winter and your bees probably won’t do much. In North America, the answer is still not clear. If you keep bees somewhere along the east coast, from Newfoundland through Florida, bees often have an August dearth. You may have to feed them, depending on your exact location within that broad region. Similarly, from coastal British Columbia through southern California, a dearth may be on as most honey is produced in the spring and early summer. The heat and drought of August desiccates flowers. With nectar dearths bracketing the continent, many North American beekeepers think that honey takes an August hiatus everywhere. But no, not everywhere.

It might surprise some readers that most North American honey is made during July and August. Over two-thirds of the continent’s honey comes during those months from Iowa, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Montana, Wyoming and the three Canadian prairie provinces.  Most commercial beekeepers locate in those areas for the summer, but most hobbyists keep bees elsewhere.

Two-thirds of North America’s honey comes from the upper plains.

This points out how important it is to translate the videos, articles, and books you encounter into ideas that work for your own location. I think the best way to learn what August will bring is to get chummy with a good beekeeper in your area and listen to them. To do well at beekeeping, imitate their habits.

In time, as you learn to beekeep, you develop some experience. A repertoire of memories relevant to your seasons and your neighbourhood builds in your head.  But you need to be cautious. I’ve certainly failed massively by thinking – after five or six years – that I had things nicely figured out. I kept a commercial bee farm in an area where I made huge (300-pound average) crops six years in a row. The local old timers warned me that we would eventually have a dry year. We did. After thinking that I was the world’s smartest beekeeper, it didn’t rain for 14 months. I had no honey for two seasons. Suddenly, I became one of the world’s best educated beekeepers, if education is measured by experience.

It’s a truism of beekeeping that every year is different. But in general, with experience, you’ll learn what a normal year will bring you. Maybe your honey flow shuts off in mid-August due to drought or continues unabated until September’s first frost. Or maybe it does either, depending on the season’s weather. Perhaps, in your area, you will never, ever get any honey in August but will need to feed your bees until the flowers of autumn blossom.

I can’t tell you what to expect from your bees in August. If I had that sort of foresight, I would have bought Apple stock in 1980, when it was 25 cents a share. (I bought some beehives instead.) Tomorrow, I will write a bit more about predicting honey flows and I’ll describe an important predictive tool that very few beekeepers use.

Posted in Beekeeping | Tagged , , | 5 Comments